Described as the "Cream of the Crop" when it comes to entertainers, Banachek is the world's leading mentalist. His talents are so incredible that he is the only mentalist ever to fool scientists into believing he possessed 'Psychic powers' but to later reveal he was fooling them.
Performers around the world such as the colourful Penn & Teller, "The Amazing" James Randi and television's unique street magician David Blaine seek his performing expertise. Companies and theatres seek him for his outstanding performing abilities.
Banachek has published several books in his field of expertise, which are regarded as "must-read" for mentalist and magic performers in general. The best known publications are "Psychological Subleties Vol.1 & 2" and "Psychophysiological Thought Reading". Banachek also worked as a creative advisor for Criss Angel's Mindfreak Show on A&E and just returned from his Tour in Europe.
Wilm Weber: Today we are chatting with Banachek, the leading mentalist in the world today. Thank you very much for taking the time. Banachek: You are quite welcome and I am happy to share any and all thoughts.
Wilm Weber: I noticed you are currently on tour in Europe. How is performing mentalism in Europe or other continents different from performing in the United States? Do you find people perceptible to the same suggestions or do you have to make many cultural adjustments as you perform internationally? Banachek: Every year I try to tour at least one country. Last year I did France and drove around France twice in less than two weeks. This year I toured Germany and lectured in 23 cities in 24 days; an exhausting but amazing experience. I would not suggest this kind of a grueling schedule to most people. You only get a taste of each city if that, but I do know what cities I would like to go back and visit if I ever have a longer stay.
There definitely is a difference lecturing to people in a foreign language, but overall I find people pretty much the same when it comes to the basics. People in Europe or Asia still forget to draw the face on a cat or fish if I interrupt their thinking as they are trying to draw. The biggest difficulty comes during translations. Often the translator will say what he thinks you want to say, or he thinks he has an understanding of where you are going and translates accordingly not realizing till the last moment he has assumed too much. My biggest problem often comes when a translator tells me he has translated for many performers. To me that is usually a red flag. The ones who are unsure of themselves usually do the best as they translate each sentence rather than trying to get ahead. I have had a few times where I have said one or two words and the translator has said two sentences and other times I say two sentences and they say two words. I have had a few lectures where someone has said, "that is not what he said at all." I have had a time where I say, "It's not about ..." And they translate, "It is about ..." My lectures are not as simple to teach as most magic lectures as there is so much subtlety. It is not as simple as, pick this up, hide this in your hand, or move this way. Timing is important. How you say something is important, when you say something...
As a result I structure my foreign lectures in a specific way. I usually keep the simple stuff up front, the things that do not rely upon too much psychology. By this time the audience and I know if the translator is capable of understanding what I am teaching. Usually someone who understands English and mentalism has traveled far and makes himself known. This person usually talks to the translator and the translator is ecstatic to have them take over. It is at this point they realize they are out of their area of expertise and it is not personal. Now for the second part of the lecture I can get more down and dirty and teach the really good stuff, the stuff that is not so simple to explain.
Wilm Weber: You are an advisor to Criss Angel's Mindfreak show on A&E. How did you get involved in this project and have you considered launching your own TV project, like Derren Brown did successfully in the UK with "Trick of the Mind" and other shows? Banachek: Well actually I had never met Criss until a few weeks prior to him shooting his first season of MINDFREAK. Criss wanted to do the buried alive and the bullet catch. Since I was the first to perform the buried alive and gave Penn & Teller the method for their bullet catch, Criss flew me to Vegas to meet with him. I liked the way Criss worked with those around him, he treated all around him with respect. Criss told me he wanted me to work with him, could I fit it in my schedule. He also told me he had no money left as it was so late in the game. As a result I told him if I could continue the shows I had contracted, I would be happy to help. Money in the business of making these specials is tight, there is little money left for the magic by the time you have paid production. By the third season I had lost a lot of money and could not see coming back. However, Criss made it worth my while at that point and I stuck around till near the end of season four. During that season Criss and I parted ways over an article in MUM written about me. We are still friends but sometimes friends have to part ways when it comes to business.
As for doing my own show; during season three A&E decided they wanted to do a show with me. We signed a two show pilot deal and if they liked what they see we would shoot more. Criss Angel Productions was going to produce it. Now that we have parted ways, Criss' production company will not be producing it so the show is on hold and we are now pitching it to other networks. I believe it is just a matter of time. I also have a few overseas contacts working very hard at pitching some shows. Again, it is just a matter of time. There are some interesting things in the works.
Wilm Weber: How is working with Criss Angel? Many of his effects are truly amazing. How involved are you in this show and did you try talking him out of the “Buried Alive” illusion? Banachek: Funny enough most people think I am only involved in the mentalism aspects of the show, nothing could be further from the truth. Starting first season I was involved with every aspect, I even helped to write many of the surreal intro segments and the cold openings. Starting second season Criss, myself and a small team would sit in a room and for two weeks work on all the episodes, coming up with the effects, laying them out on boards, coming up with themes for the shows. Season three we spent two weeks in a room and had to come up with 350 effects. Season four we spent a week in a room and had to come up with almost 200.
After that we head out and shoot one and a half shows a week. No real time for rehearsals, no time for getting it wrong. You had to get the shot and move on. I think this is why many people think we use stooges or CGI. That is not true in the sense they mean it. We have a lot of edits because we don't have the luxury of practicing till we get it right with the camera crew so as a result the shot may show how the magic is done despite the fact it fooled the people there so we have to cut to a different shot. Sometimes we would shoot the effect twice with the same group and use the best angles from both and mix them together. Bottom line is the people there are fooled and we want to give the people at home the same experience. To do anything else would be unfair to the audience at home.
I have no problem framing a move or bit of magic out of the camera. You can fool people with misdirection in person but not always on screen. A perfect example was Johnny Ace Palmer. Johnny is a brilliant performer who won the entire FISM with his cups and balls routine. Then he went on national TV and performed his classic effect for a straight on one camera shot. You could see every load; every movement of misdirection was seen since you can't fool the camera. I would have had no problem cutting out the loads or moving the camera in on the amazing magic and the revelations under the cups so we zoom out the loads hiding them off frame. This would have given the people at home the exact same effect as the people who were there.
Plus, in this day and age you have to worry about people slow motioning a routine that fooled them the first time and finding out the secret. Then they go online and post the video in slow motion and point out the secrets. The amazing thing is that it is usually magicians doing this. Magic certainly is the only art that I know of that destroys itself within its own ranks. Magicians’ pointing out that they think every successful magician is a hack or not that good and that they are better. It is a shame our art has become so petty but magic usually attracts insecure people. I was one of them, insecure that is. But I have never gone out of my way to make someone else look bad. If I talk up other magicians it talks up our art. Successful magicians must be doing something right even if you don't like what they do. There has to be something good you can say about them. Plus if a lay person likes a successful magician you are insulting that person by disagreeing with them or worse, you are ruining magic by explaining how the effect was not that great.
As for “Buried Alive”, if you perform it right you are very safe. There is always the x factor of course. Due to lack of money and being very naive I was almost killed the first time I performed the buried alive. I had a partner who was not very safety conscious and did not build it the way I had asked. I did not see it till the last possible moment due publicity appearances. At that moment I took a precaution and if I had not I would not be here today. That first time I performed “Buried Alive” it rained for 32 hours straight. It stopped 5 minutes after I escaped. A few years later I performed it again in Japan. Again not only did it rain but a typhoon came in and flooded the hole the night prior. They drained it but a small stream was running underground through my grave. I again decided to go ahead and perform the effect. They started to call me “rain man”. I think it was this “rain man” thing that made Criss think about doing it in the rain.
Wilm Weber: What tips can you give fellow magicians who want to improve their audience management techniques (besides reading all of your books, of course)? Banachek: Of course most magicians will tell you to get a theater background and I agree with that. But don't let that background lead you to lose who you are as an individual. I think most successful mentalists do well because they realize who they are and come across as themselves. To me watching evangelists on TV really inspired me as a performer. They take their congregations on an emotional roller coaster ride. There are highs and lows, moments of softness and moments of sheer ecstasy. This is what I try to do in my show. Keep it moving but slow it down at times.
There are times in my show when I am all across the stage and times when I will sit still and perform an entire effect from a chair. I try to always have something happening on stage. For instance, when someone is getting items from the audience for my blindfold routine I am revealing the serial number off a dollar bill for another spectator on stage. When someone is returning the items to the audience I have the other spectator on stage removing the tape. As that person is leaving he gets applause but rather than wait till he gets to his seat, my attention goes to another spectator in the audience who is now standing with a final object hidden in their hand. I am now on stage by myself; I can reveal the final item sans blindfold and take the applause all by myself. When people are coming up on stage I have lines about what I am going to do. There are no dead moments. There is a reason for almost anything. Some of the humor in my show is not there for the humor but to allow me to do other things. For instance, it might be to cover dead time. It might be to do a dirty move the moment they laugh because people are not aware of what is taking place while they are laughing at a joke. For instance, when I am blindfolded, I act as if the lady who is standing behind me is pinching me. This is a cheap gag but as the laugh is happening I get to move away from the lady and step forward and turn so I can see what is on the table in front and next to me. It allows me to see an object in more detail; like writing on a license or such.
To improve technique, perform your show and tape it, then write it out again, script it. Look where you have the luxury to move up the pace. How can you make it more dramatic, how can you make it more personal. Where is the dead time? Fill in the dead time with words. Try the show again; you will see an amazing difference.
Wilm Weber: How did you discover your preference for the field of mentalism over other magic disciplines? Banachek: Really I am one of those rare people, I only know one other, who started out in mentalism and learned magic after. I started by reading a book by The Amazing Randi about Uri Geller; I did not perform any magic or mentalism prior to that. That book opened my eyes. It let me know for the first time that what I had been told by many adults was real might be a trick. From the book I put together a way to bend a nail and started performing it for people. From there I started to stop the clocks on the school wall, make the bell go off early and bend forks and spoons. I then wrote Randi and told him if he ever wanted a kid to fool scientists to show that if they went into the laboratory with a pro-bias opinion they could be fooled, I was willing to do so. The opportunity came a few years later, and became known as the “Alpha Project.’ You can read about it on my site at www.banachek.com, it is too long a story to relate here. But it certainly was a landmark in the history of parapsychology. I will tell you that someone is writing a screenplay on it right now and it might become a movie but who knows.
Wilm Weber: How were you able to make magic your main profession? Did you have any other job before you went "professional"? If so, how did you get to be successful enough to quit your day job? Banachek: Oh, I had many jobs. As a child I was abandoned in South Africa and had to raise my two brothers by myself at the age of 9. At the age of 16 I went to Australia to live with my biological father who had left when I was a year old. We moved to the U.S. and while in high school I moved out due to many problems in the family at the time. While in high school, I had three jobs; a fry cook at Long John Silvers, a security guard and a hospital housekeeper.
I performed my first show for free at a mall in Pennsylvania. A well known magician saw me and told me I just had to perform at a national convention in Tennessee. In my first show I performed all my own original routines. I performed my Russian roulette with knives, (the first that I know of.) I performed an acid roulette and numerous other original effects (I had no idea of a structure of a show since I had seen no other mentalists). I bombed really badly at the convention due the fact that I bought all my props at a national magic store and did not perform any of my own material; it was bad. It was the reason I stayed away from magicians for many years, which turned out to be a good thing as I had to be original and create my own effects. 1982 is about the year when I went fully pro and did not rely on any income not related to entertainment. It was the year I started to run all the entertainment in a few Houston nightclubs where I also performed myself. I have never looked back since.
Wilm Weber: What kind of performance venues do you enjoy most and why? Banachek: That is a hard one to answer. I like varied venues, I like venues that allow me to get close to my audience, to relate with them. I like theaters that hold anywhere from 150 to 300. I have performed and opened for acts like James Brown when he was alive and a country band here in the U.S. known as Lone Star with crowds of thousands. I guess I like the challenge of variety
Wilm Weber: Did you ever see the Derren Brown Special "Messiah", where here tricked people of various belief systems in the US into accepting him as the "real deal" for whatever they believed in? What do you think of such a show concept and should we have more of this? Maybe with Banachek? Banachek: Derren and Andy have done a wonderful job. Unfortunately they have covered almost every area of mentalism leaving few stones of the classics unturned and creating many more. They are a hard act to follow for anyone and have set a high standard.
Funny enough I had thought and written out a show years ago very much like “Messiah.” It was a natural direction for me to take with my Project Alpha history. However, this is an area Derren reached the public with prior to myself so to do so would be to copy him. I do have some ideas that are being pitched right now and we will see what happens.
Wilm Weber: What's next for Banachek? Any new books, DVDs or other projects coming up? Banachek: I am in the process of laying out Psychological Subtleties 3. I am not sure I will do any more DVD’s, at least I don’t have plans for it. I find that DVD’s stunt creativity in many people. It hands you way too much. I try not to teach too much of my performing style on my DVD’s. If you see me perform for real you see a different performer than what you see on the DVD’s and that was on purpose. I wanted people to add their own persona. Unfortunately many don’t, they perform exactly as the performer on a DVD word for word, gesture for gesture.
With books people have to add their own personality, they have to think, they have to create mental pictures from their own perspective. I like that. Sometimes in a book a person will miss a subtlety and accidently create something new, that is wonderful when they do that. Books leave a legacy, DVD’s not so much. Right now it looks like old DVD’s will go the way of VHS with the blue ray and whatever comes next. So I think most of what I put out in the future will be in book form. I also love hard cover books so maybe less output but more value in the long run in hard cover books.
Wilm Weber: Finally, many of our customers keep asking this. Will your classic "Psychological Subtleties Vol. 1" be reprinted again? Banachek: Right now I plan on putting Volume one out once we are done with number 3 and maybe doing a boxed set. I want to reformat one and fix some credits I did not know of at the time. I also want to reformat it so it matches PS2 and PS3 so that those who gave me ideas will get credit for them by having their picture and a mention of them next to that idea that way they get the credit rather than I. Also, I may update a few of the ideas slightly but not much will change in the content due to the updates in PS 2 and PS3. I am shocked by the prices that PS1 is getting right now, over $200, it’s amazing but I am honored by it. Funny enough volume one did not start out as a volume. After the success of the book others started to send me ideas, I started to come up with new variations and new ideas so I wrote PS2. There was so much material that I had enough for PS3. I was working on number three the other day and realized that number 3 is a as strong if not more so as PS2 and that makes me happy as I worry about putting out inferior products.
Wilm Weber: Thank you very much for this interview and continued success! Banachek: Thank you my friend and it has been an honor.
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